DSXchange: DataStage and IBM Websphere Data Integration Forum
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gmorey
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:08 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

I've created a FREE DataStage forum that is open to everyone. You can customize your email settings so that you can decide whether or not to receive emailed postings.

This forum will be SPAM-FREE as well, because membership is moderated to keep out the spam-bots.

Please join us.. the more, the merrier!!

Greg Morey
Moderator

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/datastage_users/
==============================
If it is free, why do I have to pay to read your posts?
==============================
see, your last post looks like this:

I think we need some clarification from the Editor; I don't think that all of my posts are going to be invisible to those who haven't got a premium membership - if that were the case I'd have to revis ...

PREMIUM CONTENT (button)
What's this? | Continue Trial
==============================
It IS freakishly large, isn't it?
==============================
Well, I would definitely shell out $50 for a good book on how to use DataStage. Don't know how it can be that the books that came with it are so lacking in information.

It's frustrating for a newbie like me.

With SQL Server, there are a ton of forums (many are free) out there, and many great, knowledgeable individuals that post. Also tons of books.

If the screenshots are still a problem for a book, how about sketches, like they use in a court of law?
==============================
I've created a poll about the new Premium Content here.

*Admin edit link removed*
==============================
ArndW wrote:
You neglected to post that to see the forum and poll you need to (a) get a Yahoo! id, (b) read the Yahoo adverts and (c) sign up to see the forum contents. Why not post your poll here as well?


I also neglected to mention that you can upload files, screenshots/photos, etc.

Yes, you need a FREE yahoo ID.

Yes, there are ads.. probably different ads than what we see on this site.

Why would I want to post a poll about this site on this site? Someone else is taking care of that.

Look, it's not as if I'm asking you to choose one or the other.. I'm just saying there ARE alternatives!
==============================
gateleys wrote:
Dunno what gmoery is upto. But DSExchange is definitely going to remain my homepage Smile

gateleys


Here's what I'm up to:

1) I love working with data
2) I like discussion forums, and I enjoy discussing with my peers
3) I don't like being asked to pay for something that used to be free
4) I don't like censorship, and my links are being censored

Why not belong to 2 forums? You can turn off email if you wish!

*Admin Edit - Link Removed*
==============================
whardeman wrote:
I'd like to respond to a number of things here...

For one, we certainly welcome discussion about the forthcoming changes. We’ve already had several polls and quite a few threads discussing the premium site, and as long as the discussions are constructive (ie: how to improve our site and premium services for our members) we welcome them. However, with that said, negative posts--including links promoting other sites as a way to devalue the DSXchange--will be edited or removed.

Second, understand that the month of February constitutes the "Trial period" of the Premium site. This is precisely so we can adjust things (like the button – now downsized!) before the Premium level really kicks in. Believe me, we understand that there is still work to be done and many details have yet to be settled – and we firmly intend to make decisions that are beneficial to this community.

Third, I've moved this topic to the Site/Forum forum for obvious reasons (it's off-topic for the Server Forum).

I also want to clarify a few things for Greg’s benefit, as he is fairly new to the site, and for anyone else who may have some misconceptions about the DSXchange. This site is not owned, operated or financed by Ascential / IBM in any way shape or form. We’ve operated this site for many years just because we felt it was a positive influence for all DataStage developers. However, with thousands of members, we now have some sizable bills coming in on a monthly basis and we must get some revenue in to offset those costs.

This site has almost 11,000 members, over half of which have made posts in some way shape or form. What we are talking about is putting a price tag to view certain posts of just a handful of those members. This way a post by 99% of our membership is still free and their advice is viewable by anyone at any time without charge. Giving the back of one's hand to the "other" 10,995 non-Premium posters by suggesting that only the Premium Posters' answers are worth reading greatly misunderstands the full value of this site.

The reason that we separate a few posters from the rest is simple: Our Premium Posters are some of the top DataStage experts in the world, many of whom have been working with the product since its inception. I’m quite frankly surprised that anyone feels that access to their expertise for an entire year isn’t even worth $49, especially since you'd have to pay them many times that rate on an hourly basis for their assistance.

We wanted to recognize the special value they represent, and ask the community to recognize it, too. For those who don't wish to do so, we welcome you to stay and grow your knowledge by posting and reading answers from other members. We have said repeatedly that we fully expect a higher level of participation from the "next generation" of experts.

We are proud of what we have here at the DSXChange, and we thank our new Charter Members for supporting us now as we’ve supported them over the years. I sincerely hope everyone will stick around and take the time to find out just how valuable a resource this site really can be--both Premium AND FREE. I’ll close with a quote from a member at the most recent DataStage conference:

Quote:
The DSXChange is terrific. I can’t tell you how many times you’ve helped me keep a project on track with answers when I was stuck. You’ve made me look like a hero that has all the answers and I can’t thank you enough!


Premium Membership: $49.
Being the hero: Priceless…


I wonder if the "top posters" (Inner Circle) knew, as they used this site over the last few years, that the free content and value they provided would be used to make money down the road. I don't know how large your bills are, but if they are so large that you must charge $50 or more for members to view the best content, then you might be paying too much to your ISP.

If you get 50 charter members at the special rate, that's $2500/year. Isn't that WAY over the administrative costs of a site like this? Will any money be distributed to the Inner Circle posters? Is this REALLY the BEST way to offset your costs?

How does radio stay in business? Should listeners pay the radio stations a yearly fee because the music is so good?

How would you feel if radio suddenly started charging a fee for the best songs?
==============================
You ought to go take a look at sqlservercentral.com:

http://www.sqlservercentral.com/

How do they keep in business? There is a ton of great code on that site! Also, they publish a book regularly with excerpts from the site.
==============================
kcbland wrote:
Did you see their paid ads at the top of the screen? Other than ads for transition training from the Inner Circle members, how many ads you see on DSXchange?

I'm finished with this discussion with you. You have descended into specifically ignoring answers and are spreading disinformation. Inner Circle members are not compensated at all, as repeatedly answered. Site costs have been discussed for almost two years now, with input requested from the community.


Since Kenneth's done discussing this, would someone else kindly point out to me where I'm spreading disinformation? I will not stand for disinformation. I much prefer information.
==============================

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Last edited by gmorey on Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
ArndW

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:10 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Greg,

this forum remains free as well; and hopefully most of it will remain so in the future (I hope). Also, the IBM/Ascential site remains open as well, so I'm not sure what the added value of a new site will be - who are you looking for as your target participation audience?

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ArndW

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:25 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

I think we need some clarification from the Editor; I don't think that all of my posts are going to be invisible to those who haven't got a premium membership - if that were the case I'd have to revisit my participation (since few people like to do free work and see someone else get "paid" for it). I think the idea is to separate normal from "premium" posts/questions.
It's just that I feel that opening up a new forum when this one already has in excess of 10,000 registered members might be something of a knee-jerk reaction.

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kcbland

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:46 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

gmorey wrote:
If it is free, why do I have to pay to read your posts?
Premium answers from the Inner Circle and the ETL Experts Panel . Other posters answers are still FREE.

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kcbland

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:48 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Not to mention we'll be giving summaries in the top 3 lines, providing detail behind the button. So, if you're needing in-depth, time-consuming answers, consider the effort on our part.

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chulett

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:49 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Click 'Continue Trial' under the freakishly large green button.

gmorey wrote:
see, your last post looks like this:

I think we need some clarification from the Editor; I don't think that all of my posts are going to be invisible to those who haven't got a premium membership - if that were the case I'd have to revis ...

PREMIUM CONTENT (button)
What's this? | Continue Trial

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kcbland

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:51 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Notice that short and concise answers are not premium content hidden. But if you look at the history of the forum, with long lengthy posts, you see the value there. Notice this post continues under the Premium answer because I'm windbagging.

As far as going forward, we're constantly getting the same questions because new folks are too lazy to use Search, they seem to think typing in a question, having us clarify it 3 or 4 times before getting the right info, is more expedient than searching. We need to do something to keep Ray from having to post 400 replies a day to repeating questions.

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kcbland

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:55 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Not to mention that when a posters knowledge becomes as potent as Rays or Craigs or Arnds, their answers are not Premium content. You have a competing free resource. But, do you think they are spending the same effort to answer?

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ArndW

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:03 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

You neglected to post that to see the forum and poll you need to (a) get a Yahoo! id, (b) read the Yahoo adverts and (c) sign up to see the forum contents. Why not post your poll here as well?

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gateleys



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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:07 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

Dunno what gmoery is upto. But DSExchange is definitely going to remain my homepage Smile

gateleys
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ArndW

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:20 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

gateleys - I understand gmorey's point of view and actions, but this new system needs some time to be understood correctly before it is condemned. Getting a qualified answer is certainly worth $50 - just compute your hourly wage and see how many minutes of your work that works out to. I think it will be easy to see that just one or perhaps two answers and the membership will have paid for itself. And the $50 will last a whole year...

I think my answer-to-question ratio is pretty high but I can think back to a couple of questions that I asked and received excellent advice that saved me (and my client) many hours of consulting time; so normally I would not think twice about joining as a premium member. My only reservation with the new system is that those whose posts can fall under the shroud of being "Premium" aren't being offered recompense. But I am confident that this will get sorted out and explained.

It has become clear that the DSXChange staff can no longer justify the costs involved in keeping the forum up and running and this solution was discussed, "poll"ed and announced a long time ago. I doubt that the profits from charging are going to put the DSXchange team into a luxury suite in Vegas.

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gsherry1


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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:43 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

Is it pure coincidence the the premium content button is shaped and colored like a greenback?
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vmcburney

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:34 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

Getting peoples answers chopped off after three lines is extremely annoying. It's right up there with rental DVDs that freeze up and receiving a mobile phone call whilst on the toilet.

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ray.wurlod

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:58 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

Just think - if you had the phone with you, you could add sound effects to your answers. "I have your letter in front of me. Now it is behind me. (sound of flushing)"

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rwierdsm



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Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:29 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

gmorey wrote:
I've created a poll about the new Premium Content here.

*Admin edit link removed*



Hmmm......

Curiouser and Curiouser.....

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