DSXchange: DataStage and IBM Websphere Data Integration Forum
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kduke

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:16 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

Recently at Ascential World there was a speaker from Harley Davidson. The ex-CEO explained how they created such brand loyalty and turned their company around. He stated the key was treating even their suppliers as part of their team. They wanted everyone on this team to be successful.

He also explained the difference between learners and knowers. Learners will survive changes and the knowers will not, especially technology changes.

It was a great speech but was it just a lot of words when it applies to us. I think this whole forum is about learners. I think all of us would benefit from a book by Ray. I think it would be awesome if Ascential would take the lead role in helping Ray deliver a great book. I would love to see books from ex-Ascential employees like Ken Bland or Michael Hester. Nobody asked me to do this and I sure do not want to see any of these people hurt in any way by my comments. I know Ray has mentioned his book was in the works and seems to be stalled by who knows what.

I think Ray's posts are an awesome asset to the DataStage community. I think Ken Bland's white papers would be too. All of us want to be a part of Ascential's success. My question is this.

Are we apart of Ascential's team?

If anyone should of won an award this week then it should of been Ray. I think you are awesome Ray. You win my vote. You have made us all better DataStage developers and so has Ken and many others. Much respect.

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kduke

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:44 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Another question, if we are on the same team then why can't Ascential employees answer questions on this forum?

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chulett

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:11 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Kim, I think you are going to need to post over on ADN to get any play on this. Wink

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kduke

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:24 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

I think they should answer here. If not then whats the point. They use this site as way to promote their product. Ascential make a commitment to DSX. Make us a true part of the team. Bring back TJ too.

Do the right thing. I know you read this stuff.

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PilotBaha



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:00 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

Kim,
I have no idea why Ascential is doing things the way they do. I was abruptly kicked off the Ascential Developernet Forum AGAIN! (This is the 4th time). I approached them several times having a single account not associated with the product license number, I cannot even get a live person to repond me over the phone in Mass.

I can understand that they are trying to limit the access to developerworld, but kicking people off like this is speaking volumes (negatively of course) of their approach to people on the field like you and me..

Rolling Eyes
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ray.wurlod

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:04 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Thank you again for the kind words. I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time when DataStage was being developed and first released, and to have a background in Prime INFORMATION and UniVerse (and, curiously, HyperStar, which afforded in-depth knowledge of how ODBC works).

It is both because I like to share my good fortune, and because I have been an educator since nineteen mumble mumble, that I contribute where I can to helping people to learn more about what I believe are great products. That is not only here and ADN, but also on the Red Brick and UniVerse fora.

Yes, the book has been stalled by machinations within Ascential but who knows what the future holds? Let me say that the local Ascential staff (in Australia) are supremely supportive. The "problem" is at a corporate level.

Right now I am extremely busy actually DataStaging, leading a team from all over the world in quite a strange project, the details of which I am prevented from sharing with you. So I have to find time to keep my own knowledge up to date; have not touched the book in the past six months. Crying or Very sad

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kduke

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:58 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

Ascential

How long will you play the bully? What damage could a book from Ray do? All he wants to do is make us better DataStage developers. What damage could Ken Bland's white papers do?

You are a billion dollar company. You can enforce your will on any of us. Someday all of us as individuals are powerless in our personal life. I believe we are helped out of our powerless situation in the same way we helped others when we had power. You have the power now but for how long.

Ray and Ken will surely be successful even if DataStage does not succeed. I think it would benefit all of us including Ascential if you used your power to unite us. I think the wisdom and knowledge of Ray and others is a beautiful thing and to share that with others is especially generous and selfless.

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kduke

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:02 am Reply with quote    Back to top    

God is love. Love is demonstrated by mercy, gentleness, meekness and kindness. Mercy is the powerful being gentle to the powerless.

God is not mocked you will reap what you sow. If you sow mercy then you will reap mercy. Mercy is such a rare thing.

I think all of us are motivated by something more than just a job. I think all I really want is to motivate someone to give back to Ray. We obviously have little to offer him except our thanks. My hope is Ray's book gets done and it as good as we think it will be.

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vmcburney

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:05 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

In one of the conference sessions an Ascential speaker admitted that the current documentation and help files delivered with DataStage are more reference materials rather then intructions on how to do things. They are aiming to produce better documentation in DataStage "Hawk" release. It irks me that they know their documentation is not up to scratch but they block people like Ray from releasing something better.

I don't know whether they are trying to protect training revenue, or rejecting any content they cannot fully control, or trying to stop IP from former employees from leaking out, but I think they are taking damage from DataStage projects that are being implemented incorrectly and giving other ETL vendors a foot in the door.

If there were three or four DataStage books on Amazon it would give more credibility to the product. It certainly hasn't done any harm to Microsoft!

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davidnemirovsky
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:49 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

What a very heart felt post! I can't help but reply and add that if Ray was to release a book I would most definitely buy it.

Ray has taken me for a few training courses and his knowledge of the product is both amazing and scary at the same time. Will we ever achieve a knowledge level as in depth as Ray’s? We can only strive towards this, and a book by Ray would almost certainly help!

Corporate politics… can’t live with it and can’t live with it…
Wink

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ray.wurlod

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:35 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

Quote:
Will we ever achieve a knowledge level as in depth as Ray’s?

No reason why not, keep studying, keep up to date, and keep experimenting.
The only advantage I have is a twenty year start. Laughing

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Athorne
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:08 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

I couldn't help but add my own two cents. I first started using Ascential as part of bundle with our purchase of the PeopleSoft EPM module in January of this year. At that time it was just announced the Informatica Powermart would not be the ETL provider for PeopleSoft EPM going forward, and that Ascential DataStage would be the replacement.

Now almost a year later my knowledge of DataStage is infantile at best, but I owe everything to this forum. It has been a lifeline for me and this project. My gripe all along has been a lack of documentation that explains a fraction of the information I find on this forum.

I can't say with any authority, but I have heard rumors about PeopleSoft going back to Informatica as their supported ETL tool. I can only imagine if that is true a large part of the decision must be from customers such as myself complaining about the lack of documentation and documented solutions. Personally I'm happy with DataStage and the abilities of the tool, but given a choice between a documented product that I can support and an undocumented product that I don't really know how to support... well you can see which decision most people would make.

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vmcburney

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:42 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

I think the rumour is false. PeopleSoft at AscentialWorld announced they were adding DataStage to ALL products. An embedded version of DataStage will be added to each product to assist with upgrades. A full version will continue to be bundled with EPM. MetaStage is due to be added to EPM at the start of next year.

Ascential have been more generous then Informatica in the license pricing, which is why PeopleSoft made the switch.

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him121



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:42 pm Reply with quote    Back to top    

hi..all..
nice talks..
i am very new to this Forum and datastage....

just started when peoplesoft started the EPM development with datastage..

i like ascential..and want to go in depth as much i can go..
but documentation is not..so interesring ..
there are no good examples..given..

i think i will be the first person..who is ordering book from ray...from today..

so i will be eagerly waiting for the book...

thanx..
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